Alright, I placed a new Kenwood head unit in my 2007 Xfire Roadstar, along with a set of kicker tweeters and a set of Kappa Infinity woofers for the doors. Everything is wired to the factory amp. But after playing for ten minutes all sound will shut off, but the head unit will still be on showing the radio playing or the track of the CD playing. Then ten minutes later the sound will turn itself back on. this will go on and on and on.

I called Crutchfield and they said that the factory amp was being overlaoded and was shutting off to protect itself. They suggested that I run the kicker tweeters thru the radio directly (which puts out 50 watts per channel). They wanted me to run the door subs thru the amp. I am open to this suggestion. But therein lies my problem.

I am trying to locate the wires to the tweeters that I have currently going to the factory sub. But I first need to know are there separate wires for the tweeters and the door subs going into the amp. I thought the tweeters and door subs for each door were tied into one set of wires going into the amp. If that were the case I would not be able to have the door sub wires going into the amp and the tweeter wires going into the head unit. I am hoping you guys will tell me that there for each door there is one set of wires for the tweeter and one set of wires for the sub, with both sets going into the amp (that is a total of four sets for the two doors).

If the above is the case, what are the color of the wires going into the amp for the tweeter sets and for the door woofer sets.

If the above is not the case, how do you guys suggest i go about hooking the tweeters to the head unit and the door subs to the amp (if the tweeters and subs operate off of the same wires)

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

They are common :

 

XFire:

Thanks for the diagram and I will try to figure it out. But can you at least tell me what you mean by "They are common." Sorry, just not that astute to when it comes to this. Could you be a little more plainer in what you are saying. If not can someone else please way in a little more clearer on the questions I posed

 

"Common" lead to the door speaker and tweeter.. Now I'm no expert by any means.. but looking into tweeters for the corvette hookup.. the subject of ohms was brought up.. You might want to confer with Crutchfield on that subject..

Quick lesson I just looked up...


Significance

• Knowing about speaker ohms is important because it is a safety issue. Connecting too many speakers to a device such as an amplifier can result in overloading. When this happens, there is a risk that it may blow up. Amplifiers give their maximum power to the speaker when the impedance of the speaker is similar to the output impedance of the amplifier. If the speaker impedance is lower than the amplifier's, then the amplifier has the tendency to overheat. In the opposite situation when the speaker impedance is lower, the result is a poorer quality of sound.
  
  

Connections

• Speakers can be connected to each other in two methods: parallel and series. If the speakers are connected in a series, the impedances are added to each other. For example, two 8-ohm speakers in a series have a total impedance of 16 ohms. In cases where speakers of the same impedance are connected in a parallel, the total is the impedance of one speaker divided by how many speakers there are. For parallel connections of speakers with differing impedance levels, the total impedance is computed by multiplying the impedance of the speakers. The product is then divided by the sum of the speakers' impedance.
  
  

 

"They are common" means that the larger door speaker and corresponding tweeter speaker are connected in parallel, IE the same wire from the amplifier goes to the same post on both the larger and tweeter speaker for each door.
This is as opposed to having separate wire pairs from the amp to each speaker.

 

Run your own wires from the tweeters to the head unit! It is not as hard as it sounds, but it will take most of the afternoon to snake the wires thru.

Keep polarization in mind - + on the speaker goes to + on the head!

Also,
I understand you are using the factory speakers behind the seats, you didn't change them, did you?

Oh, and thanks for buying Kenwood!


Mark Christopher
Kenwood USA - Systems Group
Suwanee, GA

 

Your welcome.. LOL..

Kenwood KDC-HD455U is in the vette and would have made a nice one to put in the Crossfire.. since you can select the color for the buttons!

So wiring the tweeters direct before the HU will cut the ohm load and prevent overheating the amp correct?

 

Yes, but............

I wonder, is the overheating due to the door circuit or the rear speakers?

Remember, the feed to the rear speakers is separate from the feed to the door speakers.
If he has not changed the rear speakers, then go for it, the problem would be in the door speakers. But if he has changed the REAR speakers, now the overload can be the door circuit OR the rear speakers.

That is my only 'caveat' here. It SOUNDS like he's only changed the door speakers, so separating them would, it seems, solve the problem.

I'll tell you one thing: I am rather impressed by the protection circuits of the factory amp.

 

It may only be a coincidence, but is not the amp cooled by the ECU fan output? Just sayin'.

I haven't yet heard of an OEM amp "overheating".

Are you using these:
Kappa 60.11cs - Infinity
@ 2 ohms? Maybe so. Though the Infinity Reference (2 ohm) I installed don't cause issues even trying to keep up to road noise.
Perhaps issues with the crossover?

 

First I want to thank everyone for jumping in and trying to assist me with my difficulties. I especially shout out to MrMiati for going the extra mile and doing the research for me to educate me to the extent of the problem I was dealing with. He did not have to do this and I am extremely grateful.

Pizza: To answer your question, your surmise was correct, I did not change the back woofers. I only changed the door speakers. To your point---I ran the Kappas for a week with the rear woofers while I awaited the kicker tweeters. I ran them thru the factory amp. Had no problem and everything was clear and crisp even at max volume. It was not until I plugged in the kicker tweeters into the equation (plugging them also into the factory amp) that i started getting the shut offs, even playing at low levels. So, I am definitely overloading the amp.

Pizza I see you are a Kenwood rep. SO, my question is aimed at the Kenwood unit itself. I am using the speaker wires in the head unit wire harness to connect the door speakers (door woofers) to the amp. What wires would there leave in the head unit harness to use to directly connect the tweeters to the head unit. I am at a lost because I think there is only one set of wires for the speakers and I am using them for the door woofers). Am I missing something here

 

Max - First, about the ECU fan. I do not believe that it cools the amp. I've still NEVER SEEN the amp, but the ECU fan is described as "pullling passenger compartment air into itself and blowing it into the ECU/PTCM-RCM-BCM box to cool it". The amp SEEMS to me to be covered up and isolated from any air flow - maybe you DO have a point....

SrW - Well, I am a Kenwoodian, but I was being sarcastic in a way, 'cause I work for the Systems group. We deploy large two way radio systems in heavy industry and public safety. I dont even own any Kenwood audio equipment, even tho I can buy it at 45% off. (Oddly the stuff I work on, I can only get about a 15% discount - explain THAT ONE?!?!?!)

But let's fix the problem... are you saying that you REMOVED THE FACTORY TWEETERS and then INSTALLED AND CONNECTED the aftermarket tweeters, and the problem started? Do I have that right? Or did you disconnect all door speakers, add the Kappas without tweeters (and it worked) and then added the new tweeters (and it failed)?

The reason I ask is that I'm trying to get an exact chain of events that it took to make the amp throw a fit. These amps don't often act up like this.
Also, just to be sure, are you getting sound from all speakers in both doors before it cuts out? I ask this to make sure we don't have a bad wiring problem somewhere, which would be the problem, not the speakers. Again, it seems to take a lot to anger the factory amp.

Let me dig up the into on that Kenwood Head Unit, can you give me the model of it, and the model/specs/what have you on the Kappas and Tweeters? I can usually get the specs on something just from the model number/name.

This should be a resolvable problem without too much trouble...

 

If he's using those, he does not need tweeters, and with 2 ohms there AND what is probably another 4 ohm tweeter, no wonder the amp is getting mad! 2 ohms in parallel with 4 ohms is 1.3333 ohms.

If our amps are designed to work into two 8 ohm speakers, that's 4 ohms. 4 ohms to 1.333 ohms is quite a stretch, but I'm still almost surprised the amp is "tight" enough to object.

 

Pizza:

1. I am using the Kenwood Excellon KDC-X796.

2. I have the Kappa Infinities door speakers I do not know what what Kicker tweeters I am using.

3. Before the radio stops playing music I am getting sound from ALL of my speakers, to include the rear speakers. The sound suddennly stops playing even though the head unit continues to play (CD track keeps playing). then all of a sudden the sound in ALL of the speakers will kick back in. NEVER, does the sound cut out in one particular set of speakers.

4. The sequence of events is was as follows: I first purchased the Kappa Infinities. Hooked them up with the rear woofers, all to the amp. I was not using any tweeters at all. Everything played fine with no shutoffs. I then purchased the Kicker tweeters and hooked them up to the factory amp with everything else. That is when the shut off began. I then did everything in reverse. I unhooked the Kappas and only played the kicker tweeters with the rear woofers and no shut offs occurred. It is only when I hook the door woofers (Kappas), the Kicker tweeters) and the rear woofers that the amp cuts out. So, I am really of the believe that I am overloading the amp.

5. But this brings me back to my earlier question, if I am using the two speaker wires in the radio units wiring harness to connect the kappas to the amp then what wires in the harness do I use to connect the kicker tweeters to the head unit. The only other two remaining wires in the harness are used to connect the rear speakers to the amp (I believe).

 

Well, I just lost a whole post.

Ok, anyway, it sounds to me like your tweeters MUST be powered right from the head. It would appear you have too low of an impeadance for the amp to drive with all of them together.

There are simply no extra wires in the door. It's time to take the door panels off, here is a tutorial on that, it should be at the bottom of this post. Once you get the wires snaked thru the door to the underside of the dash, it gets easy. I've run a lot of wires from all over the car to the back of the head, etc. The underdash is easy. I know you don't want to run wires, but there just is no other way.



Ok, did some reading here and I found out about those speakers: All Kappa's like you describe are 2 or 3 way speakers and present rather low impeadances. Adding the tweeters is just making it TOO low.


And I was not familiar with that Kenwood head.... I just checked, I can buy one of those for (a price I probably should not post) thru the HR department. I REALLY like to keep the head factory, but that thing is a whole new world of options and nice features...

 

Pizza:

I really appreciate your working with me on this and trying to help me. But we seem to be skipping over the only aspect of this I am missing. I mean I know how to remove the door panels and how to run the wires throughout the car. After all, I installed the kicker tweeters, the Kappas and routed everything through the amp. So, that whole aspect I get and can do.

The one question that is not being answered is if I am using the two wires in the Kenwood wiring harness to connect the Kappa door speakers to the amp, with the remaining two wires in the harness being used to connect the rear subs to the amp what wires are left in the kenwood wiring harness to connect the tweeters to the head unit. Should I do a splitter of the wires in the head unit harness to accommodate the tweeters and the door speakers. Perhaps I need to go back to Crutchfield to answer this question.

 

Oh............................. I get it now. At least I THINK I do.

I thought the speaker outputs in the rectangular plug on the Kenwood were unused in this installation. Didn't you use the preamp outputs on the Kenwood to drive the amp? From the amp to the speakers, you'd just use the factory wiring.

Therefore, you'd run separate wires from the tweeters to the speaker outputs in the Kenwood rectangular plug.


I think we need someone like BoilerUp to chime in.... I can talk THEORY here only, I have not tangled with the system and lack PRACTICAL experience. I'm gonna send him a PM right now.

Let's get you some REAL help.

 

Pizza:

Yu are more on tract than I am, given that i do not know what i am doing and I am getting misleasding info. But I believe you are helping me get this on track.

When I first installed all of the new speakers to the amp I used all of the factory wiring and did not use any of the head unit's preout plugs. I was told it would be better and I would get more power by tying my speakers directly into the amp. So, as it stands right now, none of the wire plugs in the kenwood harness block are being used. Shall I run my tweeter wires directly to those preout plugs (I know I am calling them the wrong name) because they are not being used. If that is the case that would be really easy

 

Let me take one more look at the manuals... be right back.

 

"Personally".. rather than make more work for yourself.. I'd be real tempted to purchase new tweeters with an ohm load to pull the system back into "acceptable range" using the stock wires.

Maybe I'm just lazy.. LOL.

 

Ok, here we go. This is how I'd do it, looking at the diagrams, I know the output of the FACTORY head is floating. That is, you cannot connect one side of the speaker output to ground. Fine. But will the AMP object to having one side grounded? If so, then we cannot use the preamp outputs on the right side of the Kenwood (as viewed from behind) because they are phone/rca jacks and are grounded to the chassis. I WISH Boiler or someone else was here to comment on that aspect.


Going on that assumption, I'd try this (and my wire colors in the car are based on the 2005 SRT manual, the only one I have, but I do NOT believe anything changed.)

In the wiring harness coming from the rectangular connector on the Kenwood:
Connect (kenwood) white to left door tweeter + terminal.
Connect (kenwood) white/black to left door tweeter - terminal.
Connect (kenwood) Gray to right door tweeter + terminal.
Connect (kenwood) Gray/Black to right door tweeter - terminal.
(These are the wires you have got to run yourself.)

Now the tweeters are on the front outputs of the Kenwood.

Connect (kenwood) Green to car harness black.
Connect (kenwood) Green/Black to car harness Black/Brown.

This connects the left rear speaker output of the Kenwood to the left speaker behind the seat and the Left Kappa, by way of the amp.

Connect (kenwood) Purple to car harness yellow.
Connect (kenwood) Purple/Black to car harness Yellow Violet.

This connects the right rear speaker output of the Kenwood to the right speaker behind the seat and the right Kappa by way of the amp.


Now, you are powering the every speaker in the car with the amp - except the tweeters, which are being driven by the Kenwood directly. Using your front to back fader in the Kenwood, you can customize how hard you want to drive the tweeters versus how hard you drive the Kappas and woofers behind the seats.

There is little power in the high frequencies in music, so the 20 watts per channel of the Kenwood is fine for driving tweeters. And the amp's 140 watt output is driving the Kappas and Woofers.

I PREFER to use the preamp output to drive the Amp, but, again, I've not tried it and never paid attention to the guys who have done this.

Also, connecting a non-polarized 270uF capacitor in each + line to the tweeters will probably make them sound better. This will block a lot of the bass and low frequencies going to the tweeters (which can't reproduce lows well anyway), and make them sound better. This cap can be added and left accessbile by placing it behind the little pop-out panel at the front of the door (this panel is hidden by the dash when you close the door, nice place to hide the cap and you can easily get to it to change it if you want to, without tearing the door apart). This is part of the "Most bang for your buck" audio mod mentioned elsewhere on this forum.