My Crossfire darts to the right whenever the right front wheel loses traction (snow, wet leaves, manhole covers etc.) The doors don't close all the way which allows road noise in as well as wind noise and rain.

I suspect that the problems are related to failure of the adhesive bonds and welds that hold the chassis and body together.

The dealer's inability to fix these problems after repeated attempts has led me to file a lemon law suit against Chrysler and I would like to find someone with some expertise to examine and test drive the car.

 

I feel for you man! Was that a new car? sounds like the result of accident.

 

John I've heard you mention some of your cars problems before, but I don't remember you describing them in quite the same way. At least not the part about your car "darting" to the right during traction loss.
To be honest, that almost sounds like your Traction Control is acting up, and causing (just one) of your front brakes to be applied to help straighten your car out during a skid.
I would disconnect the TC by unhooking the "middle" wire from the little "Black Box" directly in front of the battery, (and try driving your car over some of the obstacals that you mentioned) to see if it still reacted the same way. If it doesn't, then tell the dealer to look into replacing your cars computer hardware controlling your cars directional stability.
Without actually seeing your "door fit" problem in the "flesh" (so to speak) it's hard to diagnosis. There does seem to be a larger than normal number of complaints about door and window "alignment" with our cars, and I would think that would be a more likely answer as to why your door isn't shutting properly, and the wind noise.
I'm not saying it's impossible your cars chassis is coming apart, but I think it's highly unlikely, and I would think there is a much simpler explanation for the problems you have mentioned.
I must say that your loyality and devotion to your Crossfire for so long without being able to correct its problems should be commended. Many would have "bailed" a long time ago. Good Luck!
By the way, have you taken it to any other dealers to see if they might have some better technicians?

 

Thanks for your concern +fireamx.

I've taken it to all five local Chrysler dealers. Two refused to work on it because they didn't have Crossfire trained mechanics. One gave me appointments then cancelled them when I got there twice, the third time they called me and told me not to bring the car in because they were out of business. One refused to work on it a second time because they said they are only required to perform work that will get the car back to the selling dealership. The selling dealership has had the opportunity to fix the car or comply with the lemon law six times. I sent in the card that comes with the car for direct intervention from Chrysler and recieved no response.

I believe I've mentioned the darting problem on this forum several times since it first appeared about seven months after I bought the car new in March of 2004.

I really doubt it's the traction control as the door problems started at the same time as the darting problem. In order to actuate the traction control the rotation rate of the right front wheel would have to change which is unlikely in the short space of time it takes to pass over a manhole cover at 40 mph. The door and window problems made it clear to me that the car was changing shape with changes in the temperature which would indicate that the bonds that hold it together had failed.

I'm an engineer and once worked for a company that manufactured glue bonded aircraft so I have some idea of what can go wrong in that process. I also held an SCCA license from 1975 to 1981 racing Formula Vee, F440 and Formula Ford cars as well as doing complete rebuilds myself on two of those cars so I like to believe I have some understanding of how a car should handle.

 

To determine if the body is out of spec. could you measure the body openings, doors, tailgate, windows etc and compare them to the dimensions in the shop manual. These are given in the body section under Body specifications, section 23 page 55. A simple check and should give an indication of any trouble in this area.

 

Well John, I'm not an engineer, but I don't believe there are any "glue bonded" parts on our cars that would effect its "structural integrity" and cause it to suddenly start driving "whacky", and your door/window problems can be realigned. They aren't welded (or glued) in place. With N.E. Ohio roads being the way they are, things can be "jarred" loose, and get out of alignment pretty easily, suspensions as well.
I don't feel the need to pass along my personal resume to add any credibility to my opinions either. It makes me wonder why you felt the need to do so, and to come off sounding so condesending, when I was only trying to help and never questioned any of your credentials.
Take your car to a body shop and have em put your car on frame rack to see if it's out of tolerance, and when they tell you it's not, start looking elsewhere. I won't waste any more of your precious analitical time with my stupid suggestions again. Good Luck.

 

Spear? i wouldn't have trusted them with my old Sundance.

 

I think John was just showing his credibility on coming up with his theory. If you tell someone on this forum that you may know what you are talking about someone always feels slighted when no such thing was intended. We can't all be geniuses, sad to say.

There is an group on this forum who say some absurd things and are either politely ignored or politely corrected. Any postings by anyone not in this group are often but not always, ignored, criticized and ridiculed or their ideas lifted and used by others as their own original thoughts. There are many good members of this group who have great ideas and I thank them for their contributions.

Some people with sixes have lots of problems which I think go along with the constant quest for more power. Pushing any machinery to its limits reduces its reliability, thats basic engineering 101.

I shall wait for the critics to rip into this posting as many see insults in every phrase posted. Come on members lets act as adults not like kids in school.

 

that's why this forum gets out of wack sometimes...we can't just stay to the question and problem at hand, we all have to get personal. Since you have raced and done chassis set-up, then I must feel you think the chassis has moved, or twisted in such a way that has thrown off your right front. I can only say, and I have a convertable, so my chassis is a little more supported, that I have thrown my car into some pretty hard cornering, above 90 mph, really twisting the car, and do have some push. What you are describing could be checked on a frame rack at any reputable body or frame shop. With that said, and with proof in hand...a law suit could take place, but Chrysler is in shambles rt now, so good luck my friend...

 

Well 180, I changed my post, I certainly wouldn't want any of our PC friends to the North thinking I'm acting like a school aged ruffian.

 

+fireamx, I agree that don't ask if you don't want answers, and in his case, I would say frustration is guiding his response more than anything. I would be peeved if I had his experience and knowledge and no one would listen. With that said, we should just remain friends and be supportive. I would still say the problem could be found with the right frame shop, but who is going to fix it? Doesn't sound like any dealers in the NE Ohio region will. So, that means a reputable shop may have to, then try to collect in small claims court for the reimbursement. This just may be the start of a lot of claim problems with Chrysler...just my opinion...

 

Oledoc, I agree, Webster has had problems with this car for a very long time, and it is extreamly frustrating to have to deal with the Chrysler Dealer Network most of the time.
It's easy to say that in any batch of cars, there are going to be a few "lemons", and this simply may be the case with his car. Of course proving it is going to be an entirely different matter.
I simply was saying that in my opinion, the chassis coming apart seemed to be a streach. Maybe being an engineer, he may tend to "over think" the problem", but I didn't say it was impossible, just very unusual.
I sincerely believe that there are no "bonded" areas in the Crossfire's chassis that would change the cars over all drivability. Welded areas, yes. But I still doubt that is the problem.
I wish Apkano could chime in here, since he's much more familiar with the robot welders that are used to "fuse" our vehicles together. His opinion would be invaluable when it comes to how often those welds fail. I personally don't know the answer.
I usually don't take things personally, I've owned a "Nash" for neary 40 years for crying out loud, thinned skinned I'm not. But I felt Websters response to what I said, was unecessary. Just my opinion.
It's all good.

 

yep, frustration can do that, but we better all stick together with this car, because we are it...there are no more, and with numbers and armed with the right info, Chrysler will have to pony up, they don't need added law suits to their already bad situation. I agree Ap would be a grt help on the welding issue, but a broken weld would produce noise, which he would mention, I believe a sprung unibody, or twisted chassis set up would cause those problems. But my vert is very solid, which is why I like it. I screwed up and lost it one day playing around, because I had the TC off, as you know TC will over-ride even when off sometimes. It did, I wasn't ready, had to turn into the spin and bring her all the way around and recover. Thankfully I had the room, and on we went, what G's and what strain on the chassis...car was flawless, and thankfully it was on the old tires, which I replaced...this car is solid, so he does have issues....

 

Was this car in a accident previously??? It sounds like it.

I think your chassis is out of allignment. There are unibody chassis straighteners you just have to look for one in your area. Also they'll measure the car beforehand to see if its out of allignment.

Let us know what happens.

 

I don't know anything about the frame but I have a little suggestion. When you talk to the guys who sold you the car or Chrysler, use 'UNSAFE' about every fifth word. That's code for I, or my heirs, are going to sue your *** off if this defect causes an accident. Defective products placed into the stream of commerce are covered under strict liability as well as negligence. Under strict liability you don't have to prove negligence you only have to prove that the defective product caused the accident. Make everyone well aware of this and create a paper trail if you can.

 

Are we to take it that the convertible is stiffer than the coupe from your posting? With a big hole in the top and the doors I rather doubt it, the brace underneath adds some rigidity, but the frame is relying on the floor pan structure for torsional rigidity.The roof has to add a lot more strength.

I was wrong once but that was the time I wrongly thought I had made a mistake.

 

There's nothing structurally bonded on this car. This is not a Lotus Elise, the steel unibody is welded.

What you are mistaking as "glue" is the caulk used to waterproof the chassis.

Welds in a car will rarely, if ever just "fail". I haven't heard of this happening in an Aveo or a Cobalt let alone a Crossfire.

I think you should find somebody nearby who knows cars and is willing to put some time into examining your car. I feel that you are jumping to conclusions in some ways...

 

There is this page in the shop manual and it has does mention the use of adhesives. How critical they are I do not know but they are there.

 

+fireamx I had no intention of sounding condescending. I did appreciate your suggestion of a traction control malfunction as it had not occured to me before.

I included my "resume" lest some forumite would think that my only aquaintance with the mechanical aspects of my car consisted of handing the keys to the dealership's service manager.

To clarify the comment about the car changing shape; in summer the top of the side windows was about 5mm below the bottom of the drip rail, when the temperature dropped to 10ºF the top of the side windows was about 3mm above the bottom of the drip rail. That meant that closing the door left the top of the window pressing on the outside of the drip rail with the rear of the window held away from the seal by the width of the drip rail.

Thanks for the manual page onehundred80. It seems to indicate that the rear body shell from the top of the windshield back on the top and from the rear of the doors back on the sides is adhesively bonded to the rest of the car.

Yes, the car has been hit from behind while stopped in August of 2006. I first complained about the darting and window and door problems in October of 2004.

Each of the six times I took the car to the selling dealership for these problems they told me they had checked the alignment. The tires are worn evenly with no cupping or feathering on the edges.

Thanks to everybody who suggested taking it to a frame shop for measurement. That is now on my to do list.

 

I just happened upon this thread.....

I'm at work so I'll have to elaborate more later. Quickly, I've been under Crossfires many times, the chances of the welds under there breaking is pretty slim to none unless something completely abnormal happened. (wreck, drove off a cliff, etc.)

Busy right now....I'll post more tonight.