Thanks for responding. Helps me cause I am currently going through the same situation and trying to learn as much as I can to quickly and accurately get my car back on the road. Glad you got it taken care of.

 

Arm and a Leg cleared his problem up over a year ago it was psuperti who never responded back.
You have to read the posts, all of them, not just the last ones to understand what is going on.

 

I know this is a 2 year old thread, but I am having the same problems so I thought it would be best to keep the possible solutions in one place.

2005 SRT6, garage queen (3500 miles per year if that), gets the charger put on it every couple of months to keep the battery up. Have had no problems until May this year when I got what I thought was the RCM solder problem.

Battery is 6 years old, posts have been cleaned and clamps have been tightened. Battery charger is on it and set to 10/30A charge.
Turn the key, all dash lights come on and starter will not engage 99% of the time.
Like the OP, I was holding the RCM once when my helper turned the key and it started, so I though bending the board had something to do with it. Shut the car off and could not get the starter to engage again.
Sent the RCM to DJ for a full rebuild. He said it worked when it got there, he rebuilt it (changed relays) and tested it in one of his cars. It still worked so he sent it to me. Starter will still not engage.

Now for the questions:

Even though my battery is 6 years old, will keeping the charger on it while I am trying to start it overcome that? I know these cars are quirky when it comes to voltage but the day it died it started just fine (cranked over good and strong), I drove it for about 30 minutes, let it sit for 4 hours and then the problem began. So, I was hoping that rather than throwing a battery at it and being no farther ahead, I would save the money until I can figure it out.

Looking at the Starting Circuit diagrams, can I run a 14GA jumper wire from the positive battery post to connector C106, Cavity 6 to see it the starter engages so I can rule out the starter?

If the starter engages with the jumper, working backwards in the diagram, I should see 12VDC at cavity 6 on the mating connector of C106 when the key is turned to start, correct? That is with the positive lead of the DVM at the connector and the negative lead on the ground point for the battery.

If I see 12VDC there, then I assume the starting circuit is good and maybe I'm not getting enough current and I need a battery?

If I don't see 12VDC there, then I move to the Pulse Module, Connector F, position 1 and see if I am getting 12VDC output from the module. If I do not get 12VDC on the output, time for a Pulse Module, correct?

Should everything be 12VDC in this circuit?

Thanks in advance for your time and comments.

Randy

 

All the above sounds good, except a fellow in Mississippi went through the same thing a few years back and found that he just had an intermittent wire from the ignition switch to the pulse module.

 

Thanks ala_xfire for the confirmation of what I am doing!!

UPDATE:

Once the battery was fully charged (per the battery charger indication), checking it with a DVM it is reading 12.7VDC. I was under the impression that it should be a bit more than 14VDC when fully charged?

I jumped Pin 6 of C106 (Engine side) to the car battery positive post and the starter cranked, so the starter is good.

I measured the voltage at Pin 6 of C106 (Engine Compartment Side) when the key is turned to start (several times) and I get about 1/2 second of between 12 and 13VDC (around 12.5) and then it drops to 0VDC, so the pulse module is allowing the voltage through but not for long - is that what it's supposed to do?

Since I was getting that 12.+VDC spike at C106, I connected C106 and tried to start the car and the starter would not engage at all.

I'm thinking it's the battery unless that pulse module is not allowing a long enough voltage when the key is turned, but if it's the battery, why would jumping the starter with the battery engage the starter (battery is strong enough) but going through the starting circuit not work? Also, even with that short spike of voltage from the pulse module, I would think the starter would at least bump a little. When I was jumping the starter to the battery, it would kick immediately when I would touch the jumper wire to the positive post - no hesitation.

Again - thanks in advance for your advice.

 

Forget the battery as it sounds OK to me. My battery failed once and I just heard clicking noises.
Have you checked for any codes that have been set, I am not sure if that starting circuit sets any codes, look though.
The pulse module should run for 3 or 4 seconds,I’ll check that figure. If the car starts the pulse module is switched off.
A failure of the pulse module will set a code B1421 if I have got the number correct.
Always check for fault codes before throwing time, money and frustration at a problem.

 

Thanks Dave - I just checked the codes with Torque Pro, the app shows that no codes are present in the ECU.

I was reading some other Pulse Module posts that Pizza Guy chimed in on and he was making references to the Power Control Module (PCM) and the ECM (I believe) being important in the starting cirsuit. I don't see the ECM in the diagrams, but Mark had posted a pic from the training manual that showed it. The fact that I am getting a 12VDC blip from the Pulse Module and then it drops to nothing, I am wondering if the time relay in the Pulse Module failed or does the Pulse Module timing come from the PCM?

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...ng-signal.html
Post #19

 

You have had the RCM out so you know how to do that, take it out and remove the case and see what relays work when you turn the key. Somewhere on here DJ says what relays should close. Maybe the ECM relay is getting no power.

 

I'm just a fly on the wall here...but, imho...@ 6 years old, it is Time for a new battery, charged before install, (if rcm is good). For the past 3 years, ours was not driven much either. Whenever she sits for more than a week, I put an automatic 3 amp charger on and leave it on till the next time on the road. (Using Napa #8448, maintenance free, conventional, "legend" battery.) Small price to pay for periodic maintenance.

 

I haven't given up yet - I just lost my helper for a while (she's a teacher and has been spending more time at school than at home). Once our schedules re-align, I'll do this and report my findings.

A new battery is definitely on the list of things to do, but I don't want to spend the money on that right now when I haven't proven what is causing this. I would think that with the battery still providing 12+ volts, along with the assistance of the battery charger, that this set up would overcome a weak battery. What is really throwing me is the battery will engage the starter when jumping it to pin 6 of C106 but won't when going through the full starting circuit - that tells me the battery is strong enough to at least trouble shoot with. Also, the "blip" of 12VDC on that pin 6 of C106 and then going to nothing I think is the problem. That (to me) is something in the logic of that starting circuit that isn't holding 12 volts on that pin for a few seconds. And, the RCM has been redone by DJ and given a clean bill of health, but I'll still check the relays to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to do.

Thanks again for all the ideas and comments - much appreciated!!

Randy

 

Twelve volts is available using AAA batteries it will not start the car though. You need amps to do that and the charger supplies just a few amps.
Get the battery tested.

 

Took the battery to Auto Zone, they hooked up a hand held battery tester and said that it tested good - took her less than 2 minutes to say it was good. Walmart said they had a handheld tester as well as a "bigger machine" to test batteries but I didn't take it there since AZ said it was good. This is the first battery I've had tested so is the hand held unit sufficient and reliable for testing load? It seemed pretty quick to me but I have no idea how those things work.

Randy L

 

The best testers are the ones that test the battery under a severe load, hand held testers do not check the ability to work under a heavy load like a starter motor. It has happened on here before that the OK was given to a battery but it subsequently failed the load test.
These heavy load testers have the battery fully enclosed just in case it shorts inside and explodes.

 

Roger that - I'll take it to Walmart and have them put it in the bigger tester and report back.

Thanks for the info on that!!

 

You might consider that the small flash of current you see when trying to start might indicate a loose/bad connection. The connection might be good enough to briefly make a circuit but not good enough to carry any amps, even the low amps to operate the solenoid. Maybe there might be a way to install a jumper between points in the starting circuit. You might even have a broken wire.

 

So - took the battery to Walmart for the big load test and they said it was rated at 600 cranking amps and it was delivering 0 - so under a severe load it failed. Bought a new H6 battery, charged it to 100% before installilng it, installed it and ... nothing - still no starter action. Back to the diagrams to figure out how all this stuff plays together.

I'll dig a bit deeper into the digrams and figure out how and where to ohm out the circuit. I see one connector (I think it's c200) that is supposed to be behind the instrument cluster ... not a big fan of removing interior parts as they never go back as tightly as they were before. ala_Xfire stated that there was another member that had this problme and DID find a bad wire. I'll need to find that thread and give it a read.

 

Open the RCM.
Turn the key to the ON position.
The 3 middle relays will engage with the fuel relay disengaging after 2 seconds (leaving 2 relays engaged).

Is this what's happening?

Resoldering joints will not fix a bad relay. Relay has to be replaced.

 

DJ - checked the relays and they are doing what you said - counting from front to back, really 2 and 3 stay engaged and relay 4 closes and then opens after about 2 seconds. Relays 1 and 5 do nothing.

Randy L

 

Cool. Just wanted to rule out something being wrong with the RCM.
It seems to be operating normally. Keep trying!
Good luck.

 

UPDATE:

Here is a picture of the automatic pulse module out of my SRT with notes of how I think it should respond under certain conditions. Still not getting any cranking. I am looking at Pizza Guy's theory that the PTCM will give the "go" or "no go" command to the PM to get the car started. I haven't dug into the PTCM yet but I did make sure I was getting voltage to certain pins on it and continuity between it and the PM on common wires. As far as I can tell, everything is getting voltage and ohming out like it should if I am reading the 8W-30-5 diagram correctly. With all that being correct, I am not getting 12VDC at F1 of the PM when the key is turned to start like I would expect. So, I took the PM without the case on it and hooked it back up to see if I could get the starter to turn by manually closing the relay and that works - the starter will crank ... but the car will not start. Everything is hooked up as it should be, key gets turned to the "START" and then released to the "RUN" position and I can close the relay but all it does is crank - doesn't even try to start. So, now I am wondering if the PTCM isn't giving the fuel/ignition commands for the car to run and that might be why I am not getting any voltage at F1? The PTCM isn't giving the command for that relay to close? That "SENSOR GROUND" at A2 of the PM and C4/35 of the PTCM has me baffled. I don't know what I am supposed to be checking at those two points but I did confirm the wire between them is good.