Racing The place to talk about autocrossing, road and drag racing.

Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Thread Tools
 
Old May 16, 2007 | 09:30 PM
  #1 (permalink)  
NoCones's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Bought a new '06 base coupe last week.

245/35R18 and 235/35R19 Hoosier A6's got mounted on a set of used OEM wheels today.

Koni's go on the car tomorrow.

Alignment Friday.

First autocross will be a local event here in NC on Sunday.

Then, in June, a series of national level events. Co-driver and I have multiple national wins/trophies in other cars, so we should know pretty quick how the Crossfire stacks up.

Bryan
 
Reply
Old May 16, 2007 | 11:19 PM
  #2 (permalink)  
HDDP's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Good luck... have fun... post pics...
 
Reply
Old May 17, 2007 | 10:13 AM
  #3 (permalink)  
xfire2005's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 1
From: Wake Forest, North Carolina
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by NoCones
Bought a new '06 base coupe last week.

245/35R18 and 235/35R19 Hoosier A6's got mounted on a set of used OEM wheels today.

Koni's go on the car tomorrow.

Alignment Friday.

First autocross will be a local event here in NC on Sunday.

Then, in June, a series of national level events. Co-driver and I have multiple national wins/trophies in other cars, so we should know pretty quick how the Crossfire stacks up.

Bryan
Good luck and Kick Some Butt!!!
 
Reply
Old May 17, 2007 | 04:51 PM
  #4 (permalink)  
soloIIracer's Avatar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Pittsboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

I look forward to seeing you and Aaron running the car this weekend. I will be there to run against you and see if I can keep up.
 
Reply
Old May 18, 2007 | 04:03 PM
  #5 (permalink)  
NoCones's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Koni's in and alignment done.

-1.1/-1.2 camber front (without using the camber bolts...yet)
-1.0/-1.5 camber rear
zero toe both ends
 
Reply
Old May 18, 2007 | 04:16 PM
  #6 (permalink)  
HDDP's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Have fun... after your event, let us know how the car responds, I may have some suggestions... But not sure they will work the same with your AX as they do with road courses because of the speed differences...
 
Reply
Old May 19, 2007 | 01:05 AM
  #7 (permalink)  
Maxwell's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 3
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by NoCones
Koni's in and alignment done.

-1.1/-1.2 camber front (without using the camber bolts...yet)
-1.0/-1.5 camber rear
zero toe both ends
if you can get some data on times on this set up that would be cool, I would be curious to see a comparo. on you adjusting the rear toe instead of camber, it will keep the tire flatter in the hard corners and your tires will last a tad longer..
 
Reply
Old May 19, 2007 | 02:42 AM
  #8 (permalink)  
HDDP's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by Maxwell
if you can get some data on times on this set up that would be cool, I would be curious to see a comparo. on you adjusting the rear toe instead of camber, it will keep the tire flatter in the hard corners and your tires will last a tad longer...
Sorry to disagree... This car pushes in the corners and is a little sloppy (non-responsive) because of the recirculating ball steering... I've found that for road racing negative camber is obviously a must -2 front -3 rear... But, toe out on the front wheels helps it carve into turns much better... I'm running minus toe on the front and zero toe on the rear... This, after two years on the track with the car and trying to sort it out...
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 01:49 PM
  #9 (permalink)  
NoCones's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by HDDP
This car ... is a little sloppy (non-responsive) because of the recirculating ball steering...
Very, very true. That was the most frustrating part of my first event with it. If you think it's sloppy on the track, try a slalom with 60' cone spacing!

Results by class: http://www.thscc.com/autocross/event...0520class.html (Me, my co-driver Aaron, and soloIIracer all ran the "Pro" class which allows cars from multiple classes to compete via indexed times)
Overall indexed: http://www.thscc.com/autocross/event...-0520indx.html

So all Crossfires indexed top 7 out of 137...not too shabby.

Weird event though...most of the fastest drivers weren't able to get a cone-free run due to the number of tight slaloms and kinks on the first part of the course. I only paxed as high as I did because I managed a clean run...I was having a lot of difficulty adjusting to how early I had to turn and how much i had to turn the wheel relative to my RX-8. I finally was getting the hang of it when I got to take an extra fun run late in the day and ran a time right where Aaron and Keith were running (even with the damn ESP on for the first 15 secs or so of the run

Off to Huntsville, AL in 2 weeks for an SCCA National Tour event. In the meantime, it's time for: straight pipe exhaust, brake bleeding, and maybe a bigger front bar and some toe out up front.

Bryan
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 02:28 PM
  #10 (permalink)  
Sennaspirit's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 5
From: Magnolia, DE
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by HDDP
Sorry to disagree... This car pushes in the corners and is a little sloppy (non-responsive) because of the recirculating ball steering... I've found that for road racing negative camber is obviously a must -2 front -3 rear... But, toe out on the front wheels helps it carve into turns much better... I'm running minus toe on the front and zero toe on the rear... This, after two years on the track with the car and trying to sort it out...
Derek,
Toe out on the front end to resolve plowing issue and push?
I woulda thought that toe in would help the push.

Just wanted to see if you can fill the gaps on how the car is doing with the new setup/wing/other changes. Good luck to you and Nocones!

Senna
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 02:41 PM
  #11 (permalink)  
HDDP's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by NoCones
Very, very true. That was the most frustrating part of my first event with it. If you think it's sloppy on the track, try a slalom with 60' cone spacing!

Bryan
Nice runs... I agree with you, but I am not experienced in AutoX so my set-up doesn't necessarily translate to those types of events with rapid and repeated... I believe your car is also a daily driver so it would be difficult to set-up your car like mine anyway. If you have Eibach springs and adjustable Koni Sport dampers, try this at your next event...

Since your runs are relatively short and are multiple tight turns back-to-back, your tires have minimal time to come-up to temperature, so run 2 lbs higher in the front tires than in the rear. Realign the car with neutral toe in the rear (0.00) and negative toe in the front. (-0.20) each side for a total toe of (-0.40) on the front. Adjust your rear Koni's 1/2 turn SOFTER from the complete FIRM setting. And the front Koni's 1/2 turn FIRMER from the complete SOFT setting. This will help you carve turns MUCH quicker, but will start to initiate the T/C more often...

Run with the T/C on during your first event, then run with your T/C off during the second event and see which setting works better for you...

Minutes before your event get the car away from the crowd and do a series of spins / turns / skid pad stuff to heat-up the tires... If they let you...
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 03:10 PM
  #12 (permalink)  
HDDP's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by Sennaspirit
Derek,
Toe out on the front end to resolve plowing issue and push?
I woulda thought that toe in would help the push.

Just wanted to see if you can fill the gaps on how the car is doing with the new setup/wing/other changes. Good luck to you and Nocones!

Senna
Here's a good tech article to keep in your folder...
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=58

As far as my car, it's still a PIG and I'm running a few seconds off the pace in my class... Something happened to re-initiate the T/C during my last event and my car bogged down again through nearly every turn, which could account for probably 5 seconds per lap... The wing has slowed my straightaway speeds by 3-5 mph and is lifting the front end at high speed (135+ mph) See picture below from Cal Speedway at top speed... The wing WAS helping in the turns before the stupid T/C re-engaged itself and cut the power again... I was willing to give-up a few MPH on the straights for better handling in the turns...

That being said, I'm still having fun... And really ANNOYED with the T/C.

 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 04:01 PM
  #13 (permalink)  
NoCones's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by HDDP
Nice runs... I agree with you, but I am not experienced in AutoX so my set-up doesn't necessarily translate to those types of events with rapid and repeated... I believe your car is also a daily driver so it would be difficult to set-up your car like mine anyway. If you have Eibach springs and adjustable Koni Sport dampers, try this at your next event...

Since your runs are relatively short and are multiple tight turns back-to-back, your tires have minimal time to come-up to temperature, so run 2 lbs higher in the front tires than in the rear. Realign the car with neutral toe in the rear (0.00) and negative toe in the front. (-0.20) each side for a total toe of (-0.40) on the front. Adjust your rear Koni's 1/2 turn SOFTER from the complete FIRM setting. And the front Koni's 1/2 turn FIRMER from the complete SOFT setting. This will help you carve turns MUCH quicker, but will start to initiate the T/C more often...

Run with the T/C on during your first event, then run with your T/C off during the second event and see which setting works better for you...

Minutes before your event get the car away from the crowd and do a series of spins / turns / skid pad stuff to heat-up the tires... If they let you...
Stock springs with Koni's...only dampers can be changed in stock class.

Right now toe at both ends is zero...I may toe it out a little in the front for the next event. We will probably try throwing the H&R front sway bar on there too.

Already running a few psi more in the front.

I left ESP on for one full run and for part of one run (both accidentally)...I never need to try that again...waaay too intrusive. When it's off (well as off as the switch allows...which is all we can legally do), it kicks in some, but is bearable.

Tire warming is specifically prohibited.

Bryan
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 04:10 PM
  #14 (permalink)  
soloIIracer's Avatar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Pittsboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

It was good to see that we were all running very similar times. I may consider going to the smaller rear tires so I can have more adjustment to the handling of the car. I don't have any problem getting heat in my tires at events, except when it is cold with no sun out. Best of luck in Huntsville. I wish I could make it but there is no way the budget will allow. I will be at the DC Pro Solo at the end of next month though.
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 04:15 PM
  #15 (permalink)  
HDDP's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by NoCones
Stock springs with Koni's...only dampers can be changed in stock class.

Right now toe at both ends is zero...I may toe it out a little in the front for the next event. We will probably try throwing the H&R front sway bar on there too.

Already running a few psi more in the front.

I left ESP on for one full run and for part of one run (both accidentally)...I never need to try that again...waaay too intrusive. When it's off (well as off as the switch allows...which is all we can legally do), it kicks in some, but is bearable.

Tire warming is specifically prohibited.

Bryan
Bummer... I hate rules... Try the Koni adjustments if your car is pushing through the turns... Only other things I can suggest is that toe out in the front... You can't get any more camber without a kit, so that's out of the question... If your car is pushing and the T/C is killing your times, keep the OEM front sway bar SOFTER and install a stiffer rear bar, otherwise, when I finally figure out how to PERMANENTLY turn this stupid T/C off I'll let you know...
 
Reply
Old May 21, 2007 | 06:04 PM
  #16 (permalink)  
NoCones's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Originally Posted by HDDP
install a stiffer rear bar.
also not allowed.
Originally Posted by HDDP
otherwise, when I finally figure out how to PERMANENTLY turn this stupid T/C off I'll let you know...
likewise.
 
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2007 | 11:30 PM
  #17 (permalink)  
NoCones's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

First national event in the Crossfire was last weekend...Huntsville Nat'l Tour.

Results: http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/Fil...eats%201-4.pdf

The good:
Adding the H&R front bar and a little front toe out was effective.
The car only weighed 2,940 lbs in race trim.
The car won DS (driven by my co-driver).

The bad:
I finished 3rd...off the pace Saturday, but better Sunday.
We only had 4 entrants...the 2 of us in the xfire and 2 guys in an ITR...2 others were supposed to drive another ITR, but they broke a lower control arm and switched to other cars.
Front tires started cording after our first Saturday run...that was the 15th run by the time the 6 saturday runs were complete, both fronts had cord showing the entire way around the outside shoulder...had to flip them for Sunday...already showing the same kind of wear.

Next up:
I think we'll switch to Kumho 245/35R18's on the front...have to stick with Hoosier in the rear, since Kumho doesn't have any 19" race rubber yet (and the rears are actually wearing very well)
CCW wheels have been ordered...hopefully here in a couple weeks
DC ProSolo on 6/22-23, where we'll have a big class...14 registered now with a nice mix...330, ITR, WRX, SRT-4, R32...



 
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
100_0358sm.JPG (189.1 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg
100_0362sm.JPG (158.7 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg
100_0386sm.JPG (75.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg
100_0393sm.JPG (190.8 KB, 30 views)
Reply
Old Jul 30, 2007 | 09:18 AM
  #18 (permalink)  
KKdriver2's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Wow, look at these results for that DC event...

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/Fil...%20Results.pdf

Nice job soloIIracer!!!! Congrats!
 

Last edited by KKdriver2; Jul 30, 2007 at 09:19 AM. Reason: missed word
Reply
Old Jul 30, 2007 | 09:22 AM
  #19 (permalink)  
KKdriver2's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Default Re: Another Crossfire entrant into DS autocross

Hey NoCones it looks like you beat your co-driver by a bit!
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RED DOG
-C-I-C-C-I Discussion
25
Jul 26, 2015 07:25 AM
MiamiTVR
Cars For Sale - Archive
4
Jul 14, 2015 01:26 PM
Bifftws
New Member Introductions
6
Jul 9, 2015 07:22 PM
RyanB
All Crossfires
2
Jun 11, 2015 10:25 AM
MJPowers
Crossfire Awards and Trophies
6
Jun 8, 2015 02:34 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:33 AM.