Won't Start problem
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6
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From: Manitoba
Re: Won't Start problem
Ten years ago, this was easy. RCMs and SKREEMS failed in predicable scenarios. As our cars age, we are now seeing odd little variations of some of the failure modes.
I've seen posts where I thought, "I know what that is, it's this.............." Before I can comment, someone else tells the person what it is.
Two weeks later, we learn we were wrong, because it turned out to be a new failure mode with similar symptoms. Our cars are aging and diagnosis may become somewhat more difficult. I'm not saying this will be insurmountable, just that those of us giving tech advice damn well better be aware of this - you cannot take ONE symptom and throw out an fifteen year old 'fix' anymore. We are moving from the days where one symptom equals one cause to a day where one symptom will have two or more likely causes.
Once again, I caution you all: Be careful about what tech advice you take from the members of this forum, myself included. SKREEMS are now failing with symptoms we've not seen until recently. "Three cranks and nothing" once meant a SKREEM failure, and it still does. But OTHER modes of failure in the SKREEMs seem to be popping up.
At one Dragon, we had a "crank but no start", which is always a Crank sensor, right? THIS time, it wasn't . There was an output lead from the RCM that was damaged and was shorting to ground. A fuse in the RCM was blown.
The guy changed the fuse and made it almost home, car quit going down the road. Put in another fuse, made it home. It took him less than 1/2 hour to find the short to ground, but I've never heard of that happening before or since. Just an example of how we can no longer take ONE symptom and tell someone what the problem is, only what it MIGHT be.
Your issue, Romad, appears to be one of the new failure modes. Let's hope we can learn from your troubles, sorry, that's all I can contribute right now.
I've seen posts where I thought, "I know what that is, it's this.............." Before I can comment, someone else tells the person what it is.
Two weeks later, we learn we were wrong, because it turned out to be a new failure mode with similar symptoms. Our cars are aging and diagnosis may become somewhat more difficult. I'm not saying this will be insurmountable, just that those of us giving tech advice damn well better be aware of this - you cannot take ONE symptom and throw out an fifteen year old 'fix' anymore. We are moving from the days where one symptom equals one cause to a day where one symptom will have two or more likely causes.
Once again, I caution you all: Be careful about what tech advice you take from the members of this forum, myself included. SKREEMS are now failing with symptoms we've not seen until recently. "Three cranks and nothing" once meant a SKREEM failure, and it still does. But OTHER modes of failure in the SKREEMs seem to be popping up.
At one Dragon, we had a "crank but no start", which is always a Crank sensor, right? THIS time, it wasn't . There was an output lead from the RCM that was damaged and was shorting to ground. A fuse in the RCM was blown.
The guy changed the fuse and made it almost home, car quit going down the road. Put in another fuse, made it home. It took him less than 1/2 hour to find the short to ground, but I've never heard of that happening before or since. Just an example of how we can no longer take ONE symptom and tell someone what the problem is, only what it MIGHT be.
Your issue, Romad, appears to be one of the new failure modes. Let's hope we can learn from your troubles, sorry, that's all I can contribute right now.
Dried and cracked insulation around wires, rusted and corroborated grounds and dried and split vacuum lines, were all things that didn’t play much into issues on newer vehicles but can be very relevant on aged ones.
Far to many younger mechanics at auto dealership just seem to miss this. They’re often very quick to change a component without any thought to the little wires connected to them.
Anyway.
I loved your comments.
I hope they are read by many !!
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 839
Likes: 206
From: Tampa, FL.
Re: Won't Start problem
13 April Update: Haven't had any problems with starting ever since I changed the crank and cam sensors. Don't know why that would give the same symptoms of the classic SKREEM or RCM no start problem. But it has been starting every time without issue. (Now I probably jinxed myself by saying this.) Just thought people might want to know. Thanks everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 770
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Re: Won't Start problem
13 April Update: Haven't had any problems with starting ever since I changed the crank and cam sensors. Don't know why that would give the same symptoms of the classic SKREEM or RCM no start problem. But it has been starting every time without issue. (Now I probably jinxed myself by saying this.) Just thought people might want to know. Thanks everyone!
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
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From: Tampa, FL.
Re: Won't Start problem
"DARN!" I just knew I'd jinx myself. Went to my daughter's house, which is 3 miles away, and when leaving the darnn car wouldn't start. Same old problem discussed in this thread. Waited about and hour and started right up!
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
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From: Tampa, FL.
Re: Won't Start problem
July 4th Update:
Don't know why "but" for the past three months it's been starting just fine and I don't know why! Hadn't done anything more than what has been discussed in this posting. It just quit malfunctioning! And of course now that I've said something positive it will probably go back to not starting again.
Don't know why "but" for the past three months it's been starting just fine and I don't know why! Hadn't done anything more than what has been discussed in this posting. It just quit malfunctioning! And of course now that I've said something positive it will probably go back to not starting again.
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
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From: Tampa, FL.
Re: Won't Start problem
Continuing saga of the poor old '05 Xfire. The classic 3 times and no start is back again. It would "usually" start, after sitting for a while, so I let it sit overnight. Now a new "no start" symptom. Tried to start and dash lights came on but no crank! I tried about ten consecutive times and then it started right up. Has new battery and will check all my grounds. Tried couple times and again it started right up again. I know I have "threatened" to send SKREEM to MSS but hasn't happened yet. Been too darn hot to get out there and remove the dash. (113 degrees with heat index) Also I know that some of the dash parts will break because it' old and brittle. I did buy a Plastic Weld Kit to repair anything that breaks.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,932
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Won't Start problem
Now a new "no start" symptom. Tried to start and dash lights came on but no crank! I tried about ten consecutive times and then it started right up. Has new battery and will check all my grounds. Tried couple times and again it started right up again. I know I have "threatened" to send SKREEM to MSS but hasn't happened yet. Been too darn hot to get out there and remove the dash. (113 degrees with heat index) Also I know that some of the dash parts will break because it' old and brittle. I did buy a Plastic Weld Kit to repair anything that breaks.
1) Next time it will not engage the starter, do this:
.... Relax key to "ON".
....Wait 45 seconds.
.....If the engine cooling fan warps up to HIGH speed (You will HEAR IT, there will be no question) - then the ECU is not powered up, this is an RCM failure. Order a new RCM, and ALSO, ship your bad one to DJ for reworking, when it comes back, put it in the trunk for next time.
2) If the cooling fan does NOT run fast, you have a starter interlock issue, pulse module failure, battery voltage too low (10.5vdc or so), etc.
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