I have done some more work and analysis.
I disconnected the latch retainer switch from the Power Top Control Module and the DRB III emulator was still showing that the trunk was open. Based on the service manual and wonderful discussions on this forum, Pin 16 on the PTCM is still grounded. Since the latch retainer switch is removed from the circuit, that leads me to believe that the wiring going to Pin 16 on the PTCM is grounded by a short to ground in the wiring between the latch retainer switch and the PTCM connector.

I have separated the wiring loom (PTCM Pin 16) into two sections.

The first section of the loom runs from the latch retainer switch connection in the trunk lid to a connector on the passenger side rear quarter panel. I tested the grounding on the Pin 16 wire and it shows that it is not grounded in this loop. The second section of the loom runs from the passenger side rear quarter panel to the connector on the PTCM. That loom follows a circuitous route from the passenger side rear quarter panel through the back passenger wall. I am assuming it routes from the passenger side to the driver side inside the cabin wall under the carpet back wall. This loom then reappears (from the trunk view) to the driver,s side rear quarter panel where it then connects to the PTCM.

• I am either going to cut and by bypass that part of the Pin 16 wiring loom by cutting at the pin16 connection at the PTCM and putting a jumper wire to the connector on the passenger side rear quarter panel that connects the latch retainer switch. Once I find out that Trunk Open Signal is fixed, I will need to make the jumper permanent or do the circuitous loom inspection and repair or......
• Tear off the back panel carpet and speaker panels (again) to see if there is some ground shorting of the green white pin 16 wire along its circuitous route. I had replaced the back woofers and installed tweeters on the back panel after I bought the car and there may be a slim chance that the pin 6 wire got pinched along the route and got grounded. I just want to verify the wiring loom pathway before I am looking for the grounding short on that loom.

So......

1. Am I correct in my belief that it is a ground issue in the loom?
2. Am I guessing correctly on the wire loom routing?
3. Which of the two options (or another) would you pick? I am getting wary of parts being scattered about during the debugging and getting everything back together (again)
4. Any recommendation on a process for finding the grounding short?

Thanks in advance!

 

STOP.

The latch retainer switch is in the windshield frame, when you turn the "D" handle, the switch releases and that ground goes away. THis is the wire at pin 16 of C1 of the PTCM.
The trunk's liftgate lock switch is connected to Pin 13 of C1 on the CLP/SSM, the condition of this switch is passed to the PTCM via the CAN bus that connects the BCM, PTCM and CLP/SSM.

Read my content in this thread before you waste any more time chasing your tail! Make sure you understand the entire system.
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...p-sensors.html

 

Sorry I missed how far you went down the rabbit hole, apparently, more than once.

The above is the indicator for the electric trunk lock, not the "latch" on the "trunk lid".
Again, PLEASE go read the first several posts in my thread I just mentioned, learn how the system works, and be damn careful who you take advice from - .0001% of the USA's population can do electronic troubleshooting - that's why I am still working at 66 (and making more money than I ever expected to).

I should teach a class in this - but everyone expects my time to be free and I still work all week, too busy to spend my weekends giving my time away.


ONE MORE THING:
Stop screwing with the DRBIII, and for hell's sake, stop following those inane service manual procedures.

SIT and read my thread, have the service manual in front of you, SLOWY learn how it all works. DO NOT touch the car until you have spent at least two hours reading and learning. I've earned a living troubleshooting way more complex electronic systems than our damn tops for 43 years and I can tell you this: YOU CAN NOT FIX THIS unless you understand the system first. Everyone means well, I am sure, but troubleshooting our tops is not for beginners - you become a "non-beginner" by reading all you can first so that you understand the system and the terms used.

I will try to check back daily, but I work long hours these days.

 

I understand what you are saying and believe me I have read your posts tens of times and then again over again. I am getting to be an expert at the manual syncing of the convertible top process.
The misundersanding problem is that Chrysler reused the term "Latch Retainer Switch" for two different objects. One object is the what you described is in the windshield frame. The other object is what you described in your post below

At the time you indicated that you had not found the sensor in the service manuals. It is in the 2005 SRT manuals and they describe it as a "Latch Retainer Switch", the same description as the sensor on the windshield frame. The description and drawings are in the 2005 Crossfire SRT Service Manual on Page W-66-3. The switch is buried in the trunk latch mechanism and is attached to 3 pin connector that only has two wires connected. It is loomed with the license plate light connector which is a 2 pin (two wire) connector. At the time I was first chasing it, I got the connectors mixed up since they were on the same loom and the **%& latch switch is buried in the trunk latch. This sensor wire ties into pin16 of the PTCM (Latch Retainer Switch Sense) and is an open circuit when the trunk lid is closed tight. I now know this is the standard protocol for NO/NC switches in the Chrysler diagrams. So the normally open (NO) switch shown in the diagram means the trunk lid fully closed (not grounded).
As you indicated with your Wayne Mullins story, he just needed to push the trunk lid down harder (or adjust the stops) to make this switch to go open. The DRBIII emulator indicated that the latch retainer switch was grounded (circuit closed) all the time whether the trunk lid was closed or open. This switch is in series with the other sensors that won't allow the top to operate unless they "clear."
My car has 21,000 miles and has been garaged throughout its life by the previous owner, hence I did not think there was a wiring integrity problem initially. Another poster had mentioned that the sensor in the latch on his car (and some doner cars) had taken a "set' because of the lid being closed a lot of time, Therefore, I suspected the sensor in the latch was bad due to failure of it working by pushing hard or adjusting the trunk lid stop adjusters.
I got led astray by the previous owner's story that there was a broken wire somewhere (I did not see any wire fixes in the trunk area). It turns out that the sensor wire would be grounding out for this particular failure and not be a an actual break.
I picked up a used latch with the sensor in it (since there are no new ones). This replacement latch had a spring that was broken in it and would not latch (Grrr). The latch retainer switch is riveted in the latch so I just got another latch as a backup and I started disconnecting the PTCM wiring loom connectors. I al;so now knew from searching that grounded sensor wire (pin 16) would give the same DRBIII signal as an inactive latch retainer switch on the trunk lid.
So I dug into the wiring. The loom (pin 16) from the trunk latch connector to the PTCM travels from the trunk lid to the passenger side quarter panel connector that was isolated is not grounded. The continuation of that loom that goes into the passenger compartment to the PTCM on the driver side quarter panel appears to be grounded on the pin 16 line. The DRBIII would show that the trunk is not closed all the way if this wire (Pin 16) was grounded.
I was now trying to get validation of how the circuit works (grounding means open trunk) and if somebody knew the routing of the main loom in the passenger compartment. I have a lot of things tore apart in the trunk and was not anxious to tear back into the back passenger wall after changing the speakers out.

If I was going to blame myself, perhaps I might have pinched (grounded) the pin 16 wire in the loom when I reinstalled the replaced back subwoofers.
Like I said, I wanted some emotional and technical support before I cut the pin 16 wire in the loom (to verify the grounding) or tore into the passenger compartment again to find the pinched (grounded) wire. I still have wounds from putting in the back speakers and hooking up the modified stock amp (4 channel), so I was just asking for advice before I dove in.

Terry

 

NO. THAT is the switch in the windshield frame that the hook (operated by the "D" ring) presses on when the top is fully up and latched. The switch is closed (so the pin is grounded) when the the top is up and latched. When the switch is opened (because you turned the "D" ring), the windows will go down.

The switch you are thinking of is the "Liftgate lock switch" shown on page 8W-61-3/8W-61-2 and referenced on 8W-39-2.

I know it is confusing, but remember this:
If the trunk indicator went to the PTCM, then the alarm system would not alarm if you opened the trunk on a coupe, as coupes have no PTCM so that wire would have nowhere to go.

You see, MOST lock/latch/door position sensors go to the CLP/SSM, as that is the "security system brain". The only sensors that go to the PTCM are TOP SPECIFIC sensors, which are the switch in the windshield frame (8W-66-3), divider switch (8W-66-4) and top open switch (8W-66-4). Now, the real oddball is: The Tonneau Cover switch, which goes to both the CLP/SSM and PTCM (8W-66-4).

Finally, you said this:
The switch is buried in the trunk latch mechanism and is attached to 3 pin connector that only has two wires connected.

Once again, look on page 8W-61-3, three pin connector, only two wires!

I KNOW it is VERY confusing, I have a real "love/hate" relationship with the service manual diagrams.

 

For your convenience....

These are two excerpts from Volume 3 of the 2008 Crossfire Service Manual that you posted on the forum, pointing out that the documentation was different for 2008 convertible top. The "trunk latch retainer switch is still on the 2008 models and the DRBIII process is the same as the 2005 NA and SRT manual.

• The first snapshot describes the DRB III status for the trunk lid.
• The second snapshot shows the location of the trunk latch and the "latch retainer switch"

In the available 2008 volume manual it does not cover what was in the 2005 Service manual.

The next three excerpts are from the 2005 NA and SRT Service Manual I downloaded from the forum. It is just one manual Download - MEGA

• The third snapshot is the removal of the trunk latch. Embedded in the trunk latch is the "latch retainer switch"
• The fourth snapshot is the wiring diagram of the "latch retainer switch" and it's effect on unknown position of the convertible roof
• The fifth snapshot is the same switch showing the grounding of the switch

Then I saw a posting on the forum about the "latch retainer switch" embedded in the trunk latch

• The sixth snapshot is the forum advice about the stuck closed "latch retainer switch"

I disconnected the "latch retainer switch" connector that is connected via the 20 DG/WI wire and the DRBIII still showed the trunk lid was open (Pin 16 grounded). This eliminated the switch itself as the problem. I was still seeing a grounded signal without the switch in the circuit indicating that the 20 DG/WI (pin 16) was grounded somewhere in the loom. I then also disconnected the "Mid" connector between the PTCM and the "latch retainer switch". It appears that the longer loom section is grounded based on the voltmeter readings rather than the trunk lid loom section which was not grounded.

That is when I asked the three questions about diagnosing correctly and routing of the looms in the passenger compartment.

2008 manual

2008 manual

2005 manual

2005 manual

2005 manual

forum posting