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After you push the top button on the console, if the pump is working, it takes about 10 minutes for the pressure to bleed out of the system so you can manually operate the top, otherwise you are fighting the internal pressure.
1) QUESTION: When the top locks up when manually raising for lowering the top, can I just pull the number 5 fuse in the engine bay or will that disturb the sync of the top?
2) QUESTION: Why I try to raise and lower the top manually three times to try and get the sequence working I don't know how to release the pressure in the hydraulic lines without losing
the sequence.
MCPO
THe Fall Dragon is in a week and I'm overwhelmed so Iv'e been absent - sorry.
1) Yes and Yes. You always run the risk of messing the brain of the PTCM when you yank the fuse.
2) If you want to re-sync the top, you DO NOT press the button first. You DO NOT want any pressure in there.
There is NO pressure if you leave the button alone. The system does not sit there with pressure on it, this would lead to leaks and is not needed anyway.
To re-sync the top, you simply follow the manual procedure but you DO NOT hit that button. Not ever. Not in the three cycles you manually put the top thru. "
Does anyone know where I could purchase the left bracket and microswitch for the trunk divider panel? I purchased a used 2005 Crossfire convertible, and it had been previously in an accident (left rear). Apparently when it was repaired, the left bracket was not installed. The panel only rests on the right bracket, and moves out of place easily. I would really appreciate any advice on where to acquire one. They are no longer available to purchase new. Thank you.
Good people,
First, a special thanks to Pizza Guy for the detailed explanation and troubleshooting guides. Excellent!
The top on my 05 roadster had been mostly trouble free after I replaced the cylinders through Klaus's shop. In fact they still perform flawlessly. A few weeks ago, I had stuffed a bunch of stuff in the trunk for a trip. Since then, my top won't go down. It still went up without trouble. After reading through this and other threads a few times, I honed in on the divider switch, thinking that over stuffing the trunk may have altered its functionality. I cleaned it with contact cleaner, tapped it a few dozen times and put the trunk back together. It then allowed the top to go down a few times. Of course, the next day I wanted to ride top down and it wouldn't open again. I bypassed the switch, soldering the divider switch wires together. And it still won't go down. Will check the top open switch now, but am running out of ideas. Thoughts?
Am also wondering if I bypassed a perfectly good divider switch. Thanks for any thoughts! John
yes, the windows go down when I twist the D handle. I cleaned the top open switch (above pass head). Am wondering if my problem wasn't the top open switch all along. Thanks!
yes, the windows go down when I twist the D handle. I cleaned the top open switch (above pass head). Am wondering if my problem wasn't the top open switch all along. Thanks!
I strongly suspect so. ALWAYS remember: The top open switch and divider switch DO NOT play a role in putting the top UP, only in putting the top DOWN. A top that will go UP but not DOWN is caused by either a bad top open or divider switch, period. It really IS that simple. Those two switches MUST be checked before putting the top down in order to protect against damaged caused by:
1) The divider not being up and therefore something could be in the way in the trunk that can damage the top.
2) The top not being released and pulled away from the windshield frame, which means if the pump DID start, you'd damage things when the pump started and began to pressurize cylinders that would pull against the attached top frame.
Going UP, you need now check either of these parameters, as it is obvious by logic that there is no reason to.
THat is a fundamental failure. THe first guess is that the switch in the windshield frame (which reports that you are turning the "D" handle) is not closing, which sends a ground to the Top module at connector C1 pin 16.
The top module then tells the Body Control module to lower the windows. If the fuse to the top module is blown (in 2005, fuse 5, 25 amp, underhood fuse box), the top module is dead and can't proceed - there you go.
If pin 16 is going to ground and the fuse is good (and this is probably the case, but check anyway), then the Security module may be the issue. Very often, the cause is the security module in the passenger rear wheel well, if it gets wet, the top module cant communicate with other modules and the top will be DONE. If there is any chance water has intruded, I'd tear the trim from the entire trunk and yank the connectors from the security module - are they corroded? They should look CLEAN and SHINY. If they are bad, you need a replacement security module and the last three feet or so of wiring harness. I've personally got two tops working only by changing the harness and module -but again, it will be OBVIOUS when you tear into it, if the connectors look fine, then it's something else.
Yes, you read that right - many inoperative tops are caused by the security module, not the top system itself. If ANY module has the CAN bus compromised, or if the security module can't tell the top module that the trunk lid is fully closed, the top won't move. The top only moves when it is verified safe to operate the top pump.
WIth windows not responding, you have a fundamental issue here and this should be easy to find - may not be easy to FIX but it should be easy to find.
Me again... things just keep happening. Is there a link between the security siren and the roof control module that you are aware of. I tried to replace the siren today, and it has caused me no end of issues. I plugged it in and went to test it and nothing happened. When removing it, it clearly was not happy as there was definatley a smell of burning. It resulted in my central locking not working. The car lights flashed so it was seeing the fob. I eventually traced that down to fuse 9, which I replaced and the central locking started working again. Thought I was back to status quo only my roof is now not working. When popping the roof the windows don't go down (it was all working before fitting the siren) and the windows work fine just using the buttons. The roof was giving me flashing light so I disconnect the battery for 10 mins. This is now stopped the flashing lights but it still won't work. Have also pulled fuse 5 to no avail.
My question is, in your vast experience, do you think it is more likely to be the roof control board in the boot or could the faulty siren damage the BCM?
Me again... things just keep happening. Is there a link between the security siren and the roof control module that you are aware of. I tried to replace the siren today, and it has caused me no end of issues. I plugged it in and went to test it and nothing happened. When removing it, it clearly was not happy as there was definatley a smell of burning. It resulted in my central locking not working. The car lights flashed so it was seeing the fob. I eventually traced that down to fuse 9, which I replaced and the central locking started working again. Thought I was back to status quo only my roof is now not working. When popping the roof the windows don't go down (it was all working before fitting the siren) and the windows work fine just using the buttons. The roof was giving me flashing light so I disconnect the battery for 10 mins. This is now stopped the flashing lights but it still won't work. Have also pulled fuse 5 to no avail.
My question is, in your vast experience, do you think it is more likely to be the roof control board in the boot or could the faulty siren damage the BCM?
I have a horrible headache tonight, so I gotta run. But when you turn the D handle, the sensor sends a ground to the power top module which then gets on the CAN BUS and tells teh BCM to lower the windows.
I can't see the siren install as causing this, but perhaps you blew fuse 25 or 26 to the CLP/SSM. I was thinking the windows would go down even if teh CLP/SSM was bad but maybe not.
Hi, thanks for coming back to me, checked the fuses and they were both OK. I found this thread https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...p-clp-ssm.html that confirms my worst fears that the siren is connected to the CLP/SSM and having removed it from the boot I can see the same three wires going in to the unit. I am less than happy as it looks like an expensive part to replace (A193 820 03 26), all for a siren that I should have left alone.
Hi, thanks for coming back to me, checked the fuses and they were both OK. I found this thread https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...p-clp-ssm.html that confirms my worst fears that the siren is connected to the CLP/SSM and having removed it from the boot I can see the same three wires going in to the unit. I am less than happy as it looks like an expensive part to replace (A193 820 03 26), all for a siren that I should have left alone.
I am having a REALLY hard time believing you harmed the CPP/SSM by connecting a siren to it. Pin C3-7 is an OUTPUT pin from the SSM to the siren, I can't see how you could harm the SSM even if you connected that wire directly to 12 volts.
Not sure what I think, the 'hot wires' or smell of hot wires concerns me, but again, Im having a hard time with this..........
I am having a REALLY hard time believing you harmed the CPP/SSM by connecting a siren to it. Pin C3-7 is an OUTPUT pin from the SSM to the siren, I can't see how you could harm the SSM even if you connected that wire directly to 12 volts.
Not sure what I think, the 'hot wires' or smell of hot wires concerns me, but again, Im having a hard time with this..........
Thanks for your feedback, much appreciate it. I pray you are right. The smell was from the siren, which I unplugged fairly quickly. I missed out that the alarm was clearly activated as the indicators were constantly blinking. It took me some considerably time to clear that which involved disconnecting the battery and putting the leads together. I also pulled the fuses for the alarm. After 3 attempts, it eventually stopped. That is when I found the 10amp fuse blown. Replacing the fuse got me back to the alarm not activating and the central locking working again. Everything appeared to be back to normal, or so I thought as the sun was shining, I would go for a drive when I discovered the roof had stopped working.
I have a friend who is going to lend me the module so i can rule it out. I'm hoping it is a simple plug and play, obviously disconnecting the battery first!!
WHICH module are you being loaned? CLP/SSM? Siren? Top Controller? BCM? You have mentioned all of them.
Hi, I think i have been confused tbh. The controller in the boot (A1938200326), I believed, looking at posts on the forum that this was the CLP/SSM. Having rechecked the form above, it looks like the CLP/SSM is actually in the boot deeper part under the carpet..
I believe the BCM is next to the ECU in the same box as the RCM.
My friend has a donor car (previous owner lost the only key), so they may let me borrow other bits if I talk to them very nicely.
Again, your advice would be very much appreciated as to which module I should concentrate on. I am thinking the PTCM.
This thread will be a work in progress for the next few days, weeks or even months. The original idea was to have a place to send people when they asked basic questions about where various sensors are in the top system. That soon turned into a thread that discussed troubleshooting more than I intended - but I think it's a good idea.
The questions keep coming, and it's getting tiring answering the same questions over and over again. The purpose of this thread is to provide PHOTOGRAPHIC documentation of where the sensors are and some background on what they do and how you can troubleshoot things yourself. It is hoped this thread can serve as a place to send new owners (or those who have never had to address these issues before) so they have an idea of where to look when issues arise. This thread does not take the place of the (horribly complex, incomplete and sometimes inaccurate) service manual; instead, my intent here is to produce an easier-to-read guide to your convertible top. This thread won't answer all questions, but it is hoped it WILL give you enough information that you understand the system well enough that you can actually find and fix some of the issues we all have with our convertible tops. Many are surprised to find they they, themselves, can resolve some issues on their own, at home. Issues with the divider switch, loss of sync and a few others can be resolved by ANY owner.
You CAN NOT make use of this thread in most cases without reading thru the first ten posts thoroughly. And I'm sure no one can read it once and 'get it all', I tried to make this as concise as possible, but I"m also not writing a book here, so some effort on the reader's part is certainly necessary. If it is hard to read, well, you paid nothing for this, and I got paid the same!
I struggled with format here:
1) Do I simply explain where all the sensors are, then explain how they interact?
2) Or do I present each sensor as I explain the sequence of operations?
After a lot of thought, I went with option 2. When we get started (in post #2), we will assume the top is up and latched and you want to put the top down.
Some definitions before we proceed: BCM - Body Control Module PTCM - Power Top Control Module
These two modules will come up often in the following discussion.
The BCM handles a lot of functions with the car OTHER than running the engine, as running the engine is the chore of the ECU/PCM (engine control unit/powertrain control module). The PTCM interacts with the BCM a lot, as you will soon understand. The BCM is in that big box next to the battery, the "Control Module Box", under the hood on the passenger's side. If you open the box, you will see three large modules standing on edge, with many wires plugging into them. In the photo below, the battery is barely visible at the bottom of the photo, and the cover has been removed from the box.
The PTCM is hidden behind the trunk trim panel on the driver's side. It is bolted to the hydraulic pump/valve assembly which it controls in order to run the system that moves the top.
The yellow box gives you the approximate location of the PTCM, again, the pump/valve mechanism is right behind it.
Robert McCubbin offers this photo of the PTCM, with the trunk trim panels removed. The PTCM is the black module, item number 1.
Behind the PTCM is the Power Top Hydraulic Assembly, item 2, (which contains the pump motor, solenoids and valves that send pressurized fluid to the cylinders as needed).
Also shown is a very good photo of the divider switch (item 3, we will be talking a LOT about that switch).
Keep checking back here, to this FIRST post, as I will document revisions and contributions from others as the thread takes on a life of it's own. There is no way I can think of every detail that is involved here - YOU can post here to add stuff or send it to me via PM email or on Facebook and if possible, I will put it in the first ten posts - contributions will be credited below and inline.
PLEASE be PATIENT, this thread won't be "ready for use" until maybe the second week of August!
REVISION HISTORY
Contributor - Date - Changes/additions made - Post Number(s)
Mark/Pizza - 08022020 - Added photos of BCM and PTCM - Post 1
Bob/bmccubbin - 08022020 - Added photo of trunk items - Post 1
Mark-Pizza - 08232020 - Replaced photo of modules showing correct positions of the BCM and ECU. - Post 1
ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW!!!!
and thank you’s and beyond appreciation. I couldn’t express how grateful I am as well as I’m sure thousands of others, the time the work the dedication and knowledge of you experts. 🙏 GOD BLESS
Hi, I think i have been confused tbh. The controller in the boot (A1938200326), I believed, looking at posts on the forum that this was the CLP/SSM. Having rechecked the form above, it looks like the CLP/SSM is actually in the boot deeper part under the carpet..
I believe the BCM is next to the ECU in the same box as the RCM.
My friend has a donor car (previous owner lost the only key), so they may let me borrow other bits if I talk to them very nicely.
Again, your advice would be very much appreciated as to which module I should concentrate on. I am thinking the PTCM.
If things went to hell when you put the siren in, it's not the PTCM. The alarm siren is wired directly to the CLP/SSM and that's in the 'boot' on (in your country) the driver's side down below the trim and foam insert.
That module is generic, you can exchange it between ANY Crossfire SRT/Limited/Coupe/Roadster.
If things went to hell when you put the siren in, it's not the PTCM. The alarm siren is wired directly to the CLP/SSM and that's in the 'boot' on (in your country) the driver's side down below the trim and foam insert.
That module is generic, you can exchange it between ANY Crossfire SRT/Limited/Coupe/Roadster.
Thanks very much for your advice, once i get to the donor car i should have free range and will let you know the outcome.
Just wondering… what’s the best way to prevent water in the trunk? I remember reading about pushing out some rubber drain plugs from under the car with a screw driver so water would be able to escape better should it ever enter the car like for example through the deteriorated seals of an SRT wing?
Re: Convertible Top Sensors
