Okay, traction control first;

I understand the w/s switch on the center console and the differences they afford us in driving characteristics. My questions evolve around the so called "traction control off" button located on the center dash. The function of this button seems elusive. Traction control off it is not. On pages 142-144 of the service manual there is a rather vague description of this function. First off it is not traction control as understood on many other vehicles. It is referred to as ESP or in another words stability control. According to the manual it states that the ESP for braking is always on regardless of the position of the switch. Which for in-experienced drivers or those who do not wish to practice some of the finer points of driving, this is a good thing. The dilemma I am faced with is the other feature that also seems to be always on regardless of the switch position. I am referring to the "stability"portion of the sensors. It appears that with the ESP off I am unable to get the vehicle sideways for any length of time. In addition, to be able to heat the tires prior to a 1/4 mile run, you perform a burnout. The ESP engages (whilst in the off position) and pulls the torque as explained in the manual. I realize there are speed sensors in each wheel to monitor difference of each, but this should be disabled with the ESP off. I am able to achieve greater wheel spin with the ESP off(light illuminated) and the selector in "S" mode, but the ESP light flashes when it senses excessive spin and pulls the torque.


I am not complaining about the vehicle this is by far a well priced(even at full list), extremely well engineered an designed vehicle. No other vehicle in this price range offers such vast advantages and abilities. The SRT-8 Magnum, 300C, and Charger may be very close with speed but the lack of handling keep them from being truly a "Sports Car" and in fact are not called so by Chrysler. They are merely sporty sedans. I am not dumping on them at all. They are very fast Sporty Sedans and my personal favorite of the 3 is the 300C. That car is beautiful!!. Back on topic. My only complaint is I would like to be able to have full control when asked. If I detent or select off for ESP I expect it to be OFF!.

Question!!!



On the 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 5.7 hemi, it was possible to remove a wire which connected the PCM and TCM. This wire allowed the TCM(Torque Control Management) to send information to the PCM that excessive torque was experienced and to pull the timing/fuel. Has any aftermarket company been able to completely remove the ESP functions, and has anyone on this forum had the opportunity to get their SRT-6 to keep wheel spin up and drift a bit in the corners? I don't mean a little bit but really drift. I was able to get the car to do a complete 2 revolutions (donuts for most of you) within the first week of purchase but since the car has become fairly tame. I also own a 2004 Dodge ram quad cab 4x4 with he Hemi. I understand the idea of the "smart tranny" or adaptable transmission. I have done the reset of the accelerator 3 times and have not seen an appreciable difference. The vehicle has 2,500 miles and does not have any codes.


I welcome all opinions on the matter. I am just a little frustrated with some of the limitations.


Leadfoot


Oh and btw, the fastest 1/4 mile on my completely stock SRT-6 with the all-season tires. is 12.732 @ 110 mph trap speed Temp 52F with humidity @ 42%. Temp and humidity are the biggest thieves of HP. This was last week in NH. If I can have my scanner running I will post the pic of the time slip.

The SRT-6 is truly a fine machine! I enjoy every ride. I also own 3 stangs and 04 dodge quad cab with the hemi, my wife has a Ford Freestyle and an Audi TT. I like cars, I like to rebuild cars, and most of all I love to race cars.

 

I hear what you are saying-the other thing that the ESP does is compensate for an open rear end-the SRT6 does NOT have a mechanical limited slip - it utilizes the brakes to keep both tires spinning equally, or to transmit the power from one ot the other...I noticed that if you have turned ESP off and pin it from a dead stop you can feel the tires spinning from one side to the other - which leaves odd marks also with one side getting darker and lighter opposite of the other one - as the brakes clamp from one side to the other. I was going to try and run a loop wire from the rear wheel sensors to the front so the computer can't tell the difference in wheel speed from front to rear, (like when doing donuts or drifting)but because of the tire diameter difference from front to rear, that will probably not work either...but I may try it anyway -

 

Wow! 12.7 stock?!? Awesome times! You've got a screamer and/or one hell of a driver mod!

Any tips on how you launched? Tire prep? etc?

BTW, I'm anxious to hear the ESP answers as it scares me when it kicks in more so than it would scare me to drift sideways. In other words, if you take a corner and expect to slide the rear a bit, it will REALLY wake you up when that damn ESP kicks in!

SQ

 

There's already multiple other threads on this topic...search for them.

Basically try to pull the 2 40A fuses from the underhood fuse box...#17 and #18 if I remember correctly.

 

Do a search a search on the "Dirty Doughnuts". You will find that Woody tried what you suggest (to run the front signal to the rear inputs, didn't work). BUT! He has found a way to get sideways by disconnecting the Yaw sensor. Unfortunately it's location is not that easy to get to. It's located just aft of the gear shifter assembly on the transmission tunnel. To get to it, you have to unscrew two screws in the rear of the center console, in the storage area under the lining, pop off the plate from the shifter assembly, pull the grip off the parking brake, and then unscrew two more screws at the front of the center console section. Unhook the console and lift it far enough to unhook the electrical connector from the small box aft of your shifter assembly.

Personally, if you are going to do this a lot, I would suggest a single pole toggle switch that cuts the power to this box. That should be pretty much the same as it being unplugged. (no power).

I would recommend hunting down those threads. I suspect that if you have the yaw sensor unplugged, you could easily get sideways.

As to the ESP always being there... I'm pretty sure on the SRT6s you can pull the ESP fuses (17 & 18 under the hood on the passenger side, I'm pretty sure) and you will still have power to red line.

Anyway... hope that helps some.

 

Maybe early cars have different ESP programming or something. My SRT-6 was built in May of '04 and I can burn the tires all day and do doughnuts all day. Drifting is also no problem with the "button" off. Strange. I don't seem to have a speed limiter either. Blasted right through 155 and kept pulling till almost 170 till I let off. I would think I had a MUTANT on my hands if it runs better 1/4 times... It doesn't appear to have any computer flashes. It gets right gas mileage and shows no other signs of tampering. I hoping it will crack into the 12s soon with the weather getting better. I ran a best of 13.36 @ 105.19 with 2.01 60 Ft. It was 97-98 degrees and 100% humidity when it did that.

 

I haven't actually had the chance or proper location to try and get it sideways, so I couldn't say whether mine is the same or not... Maybe I can buy an hour on the skidpad before I head home on the 14th.

Cheers!

 

Excellent feedback. I'll start searching for the aforementioned posts regarding the fuses. As for the yaw control, I will need to do a little research to determine what else may be affected if this is disabled. As I mentioned earlier I have had other new Chrysler products and have noticed some consistent issues arising from the TCM, PCM, ECU that limits some of the abilities of the vehicle. Superchips and others have been able to eliminate some of these restrictions but in most cases the programming is encrypted fairly well which makes it difficult to reprogram. With that said, I have read at other forums that the MB and AMG side of our cars should allow for some modification to the factory programming. A 12 sec factory car for 47K (24-28K with these blow out prices), is very exciting. If you were to attempt this with most factory vehicles you are looking at $1,500 - $2,000 in modifications.

I''ll keep my eyes open for any information regarding the yaw control and report back.

Leadfoot

 

Check this link out:
http://www.autoenginuity.com/Chrysler-Sensor-List.html

First time I ever so such a laundry list of sensors. I will investigate further.

Leadfoot

 

If I turn the button off ...light on.
I can melt the tires and no problem drifting.
3rd gear spins are rare!

But I will agree when you have the button on, light off the car will slam you around when you least expect it....I leave the button off all the time unless its raining.

 

My light will 'flash', even when the button is 'off'...if I break the tires loose.

I haven't tried to slide it too much with the trac turned 'off', but I accidentally slid it with it ON and I got a nasty jolt when the brakes stopped my slide!

SQ

 

Yes, the ESP system can and will save your A$$. First time on the track at Buttonwillow it was raining. It was my first time on any track so, according to the instructor, this was a really good thing as I'd get to learn wet track driving right away.

In the 'Star Mazda' turn I started pushing down the accelerator too soon and started to pull the rear end around to the drivers side and almost immediately the ESP kicked in and started poping the brakes individually to stop the slide... It was very interesting to feel the car save itself from a nasty slide into the dirt.

I leave it on all the time, but I may take it off on the track when I get my skill level higher.

Cheers!

 

i hate traction control. does any one know what they did with the crossfire drifter ? traction control and stuff like that ? any one know any chrysler people we can nag for crossfire drifter parts availability ?

 

A couple of things to report.

I spoke with the service manager at my local dealership. I have become rather friendly with him over the years due to all the vehicles I have purchased there. He has always been able to supply me with the TSB's via email for my dodge trucks and cars I have owned. He is checking to see if he can forward the TSB's for our SRT6's and non-SRT's. I'll post whatever he sends me.

I apologize that I missed a question in an earlier post regarding my launch techniques and overall process for achieving the 12.7 1/4 mile times. It took considerable practice and learning to get the car to this time. I started in the 13.4 range. Again my car, for now, is completely stock. I spent a considerable amount of time working with the traction control. I was interested in how the traction control reacts under different situations. What I have noticed with the traction control off if you achieve enough difference in wheel speed it will still apply the brake. So what I needed to find out is how much of a difference in actual MPH. he owners manual discussed ratios which is fine but I am not a walking/driving calculator and therefore can not do the math as I am actually launching a vehicle. So roughly a forward speed (the speed that would show up on a policemen's radar gun) which would be what the front tires are experiencing versus rear wheel speed. Hence while you will see the item below explaining how to release the brake and use the throttle. Then I was trying to determine the best rpm to stage, how much brake, how quickly to go to full throttle, how quickly to release the brake, and whether or not to pre-heat the tires with a burn out, drive around the wet area in front of the line or not. So as you can see a lot goes into improving your process not just reaction time, which is very important as well. Reaction time is improved largely with practice and a couple other trade secrets (think caffeine). So here is what I came up with:
Vehicle is in 1st gear, traction control is off (light on), throttle reset done in pit area immediately prior to lining up to race.
1) Do not wet tires but do a burnout prior to launch.
2) Stage to 2,700 rpm's
3) Foot firmly on the brake.
4) When you are completely staged and your first light appears.
5) Maintain rpm's and lightly lift on the brake. Do not allow the car to creep or you will be disqualified.
6) When green appears steadily remove your foot from the brake whilst simultaneously moving the throttle down to approx 1/3 throttle. Lifting your foot off the brake should be quick but not as fast as you can lift it. This will take practice.
7) Once the brakes have been completely released and the tachometer reaches 4,600 (approx), completely mash the throttle as fast as you can to the floor.
8) Leave the car in 1st gear it will shift for you at redline. My car shifts 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 at WOT (wide open throttle) faster than it is possible to do on a manual shift. My car literally shifts instantaneously from gear to gear. I am very impressed. I have had Power Glide transmissions on numerous cars. Lightening sticks(this is an in line manual with hand driven clutch, when you lift/squeeze the handle located on the shifter, only enough pressure is removed from the throw-out bearing to allow you to shift. The car also had the standard clutch on the floor.), shift kits for auto's, torque/stall converters and line pressure vacuum assist pumps and none of those compare to the speed at which my SRT6 shifts.

If done properly and with a lot of practice, under 13s is defiantly reproducible with these cars. Remember temp and humidity on race day is a huge factor in your performance. Once temps exceed 80 degrees and humidity is over 60% there is an appreciable loss in hp.

My car is being put on the dyno this Saturday. It is a 4 wheel dyno or sometimes referred to a Mustang dyno. With this type of dyno the unit is bolted to the drive wheels (tire removed of course) versus setting the car on the drum. It can be used to test AWD vehicles as well. I'll try to post pics but I will at least post the numbers (My digi camera is not functioning). I Will be testing stock air filters versus K&N. By the way the times I posted earlier were with stock filters.

I'll post soon! I am hoping for 295 hp which will put our cars around 360 at the flywheel. Once I swap the filters to K&N I would like to see over 300 hp.

Be back soon.

leadfoot

Always keep the rubber side down!

 

Damn, leadfoot. You're a god among Crossfires.

 

I realize this is old, but just as an FYI: The dyno you described sounds like a dynapack...that is most definitely NOT a "mustang" dyno.

VV

 

Not exactly my technique, but I guess whatever works right? What were your 60ft times??

 

Haha, yeah.....didn't realize it was an old thread :P

 

Noticed he didn't make it back.. blow up on the Dyno runs?