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Pulley exploded?

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:06 PM
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Default Pulley exploded?

Hi all,

I lost PS/AC and popped the hood and saw the belt had come off a couple days ago. I just went to put the belt back on and found the #4 guide pulley missing.

So I guess I need to buy a new one, does anyone have a part number/link anything that identifies this pulley as more then a "guide" pulley.

and secondly... has anyone ever heard of this happening before and what the heck could have caused this? A little freaked out honestly and hoping I don't continue to find damage caused by this.


Thank you!
 
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:54 PM
latemodel21's Avatar
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Originally Posted by MoCross View Post
Hi all,

I lost PS/AC and popped the hood and saw the belt had come off a couple days ago. I just went to put the belt back on and found the #4 guide pulley missing.

So I guess I need to buy a new one, does anyone have a part number/link anything that identifies this pulley as more then a "guide" pulley.

and secondly... has anyone ever heard of this happening before and what the heck could have caused this? A little freaked out honestly and hoping I don't continue to find damage caused by this.


Thank you!
my initial thought is that you have had the ASP idler give it up (your Waterpump pulley also looks like it came in an ASP Crank Pulley kit ... furthering my suspicion).... then I see that it looks like you have an aftermarket SC pulley ..... are you running stacked ?

where is the pulley that came off?

if you were using a factory pulley (which I tend to doubt) this is the replacement https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...-202-01-19-M22

if you did have the reduced diameter ASP idler, and still have the pulley (should be in your belly pan) you should be able to replace the bearing.

hope that helps,
Chris
 
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

I looked again, and it does appear that you have an aftermarket Crank Pulley (and therefore had a NON-STOCK idler blow up). If you have can find the pulley in the pan, you should be able to replace the bearing.
If not, send me a note; I have replacement pulleys for that (I have both the ASP pulley that you had and a METCO better quality double-bearing replacement).

Cheers,
Chris
[email protected]
 
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:20 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Age: 36
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

I took a better picture of the crank pulley... I didn't know it was a performance aftermarket.. and not sure what size 178 or 185? etc.


The SC pulley is in fact a new 65mm that was recently installed. The old one was bad and thinking everything else was stock would not be an issue to go with that one.


So if in fact I'm actually running, stacked... can you guide me on what I need to do now to avoid issues.


I did not find a pulley in the belly pan.. I attached a close up of where it bolted on..


Thanks again!
 
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:30 PM
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Location: North Carolina
Age: 36
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

I found a picture I had taken when I put in the SC Pulley.. and it shows the now missing pulley...

It looks like the #4 Guide Pulley.. in the diagram is called the Large Idler Pulley m112k
by needswings… But they also say it's eliminated with the ASP Pulley saver kit. So I'm guessing I don't have the ASP PSK.


Thanks
 
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Originally Posted by MoCross View Post
I found a picture I had taken when I put in the SC Pulley.. and it shows the now missing pulley...

It looks like the #4 Guide Pulley.. in the diagram is called the Large Idler Pulley m112k
by needswings… But they also say it's eliminated with the ASP Pulley saver kit. So I'm guessing I don't have the ASP PSK.


Thanks
your pulley is probably a 181mm (measure it to confirm). If it were a 185 and you were running stacked, you would likely have issues (extreme manifold pressure, insufficient fuel, etc) if you were at normal elevations.

As far as I know, only Rob (needwings) and I have supplied a BWK/PSK for the M112k (this engine) .... ASP has no PSK (or BWK/Belt wrap kit) for this engine (they do/did make the pulleys for the M113k BWK) It would seem that you have/had a Crank, Waterpump and idler made by ASP.

If you were to Get a BWK/PSK it would solve your problem. I am not selling that kit anymore SO ... Rob's kit Has been and still is a good product for this application. (make sure you tell rob about your Crank and SC pulley sizes so he can see if he has a configuration of belt and support pulleys that will work best for your application).

Or, if you like I can sell you a replacement for the ASP pulley that blew up and dissappeared. As I indicated before, I have an ASP pulley (same as you had) ... AND (as a better choice) I have a better quality (double bearing) Custom version of a Metco Motorsports pulley (that is made just for this application/location).

Chris
[email protected]
 

Last edited by latemodel21; 07-12-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:20 PM
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Location: North Carolina
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

I went ahead and ordered the PSK from needswings. I think getting the new pulleys and a new belt sounds like a good idea, I don't want to keep having issues. This car isn't my daily driver, but running stacked 181/65.. do you think it will be reliable? Like I could drive 500 miles without a tow truck following me? lol


You've been a Big help Chris and it is greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Originally Posted by MoCross View Post
I went ahead and ordered the PSK from needswings. I think getting the new pulleys and a new belt sounds like a good idea, I don't want to keep having issues. This car isn't my daily driver, but running stacked 181/65.. do you think it will be reliable? Like I could drive 500 miles without a tow truck following me? lol


You've been a Big help Chris and it is greatly appreciated.
Hi Mocross, The Needswings PSK/BWK should take care of your needs (you did mention to Rob that you are running 181/65, correct?)

as far as the reliability of running stacked. that really depends on how thoroughly you set-up the car for this "approaching-extreme" set-up. These cars are nearly bulletproof as built with a reasonable safety margin .... but start adding more boost and you need some precautions (proper tune at the least) ... add more boost (as in your set-up) and you SHOULD monitor your A/F ratio... or at the least, have a custom tune done on the dyno. It is likely (depending on altitude where you drive) that you will find that in order to keep correct Air/Fuel ratios, you will need to go to larger injectors and a better fuel pump.

there are at least a few on this forum that run this set-up that have participated in threads discussing the particulars ... I would read those threads thoroghly.

hope that helps!
Chris

P.S. Do keep your tow service fees up to date in any case
 
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Hi Chris,

I tried to measure the crank pulley and it looked like 181. I did order the PSK 181/with smaller SC Pulley.

I got the PSK kit and took out the fan and everything was going reasonable well, but the new belt just wasn't long enough.. So I switched out the new 100mm pulley on the tensioner pulley back for the stock 90mm pulley and the belt just barely fit now.


So apparently my "looks like" 181 was actually 185 and i'm running 185/65.. yikes...


Well the belt looks nice and tight, we'll see how it goes. But I'm pretty sure I see the Pierburg fuel pump and high flow filter with a tune in my future at a minimum and maybe the 550 injectors..

I don't really enjoy the "mechanic" part.. but i'm sure i'll enjoy the speed.

Thanks again
 
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Originally Posted by MoCross View Post
Hi Chris,

I tried to measure the crank pulley and it looked like 181. I did order the PSK 181/with smaller SC Pulley.

I got the PSK kit and took out the fan and everything was going reasonable well, but the new belt just wasn't long enough.. So I switched out the new 100mm pulley on the tensioner pulley back for the stock 90mm pulley and the belt just barely fit now.


So apparently my "looks like" 181 was actually 185 and i'm running 185/65.. yikes...


Well the belt looks nice and tight, we'll see how it goes. But I'm pretty sure I see the Pierburg fuel pump and high flow filter with a tune in my future at a minimum and maybe the 550 injectors..

I don't really enjoy the "mechanic" part.. but i'm sure i'll enjoy the speed.

Thanks again
Opinions may vary, but considering the extreme boost levels your engine will see with that combo, I feel strongly that you should add some monitoring (boost, A/F ratio, IAT, etc). And, I can't imagine the scenario where your injectors are not already going static (already functionally at 100% duty cycle). Seems like I have asked twice now about your elevation ... this is a factor in your cars ability to provide enough fuel with the stock set up ....

I also think that you should become significantly more familiar with your car (in terms of mods done by previous owners that you were/are surprisingly unaware of) .

These engines are fairly bullet-proof, but they are not indestructible. Common ways to break this engine is to run it with insufficient fuel or too much advance (for given boost level) ...AND, it would be a shame to have to change a head gasket or replace a "holed" piston, etc. Not trying to cast a shadow on this project, just pointing out that it is far more efficient to be careful on your first motor (as opposed to the second).

Sounds like a fun ride ...
Chris
 
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

my elevation is about 800 feet in NC

I bought the car about 2 1/2 yrs ago at a very small car lot. It had the A/F gauge I'll attach a picture of and a crappy homemade single CAI. So of course I had a pre-purchase inspection done at a local highly rated shop and they actually said it looked good, didn't say a word about the crank pulley.

The car lot bought it at auto auction, previous owner actually passed away, I found out later. Since I've had it, I also had an oil change and asked for an inspection at a dealership and they also didn't know/say it had the upgraded crank pulley.

In the time I've had it apx.. 2 1/2 years I've moved twice and while I've looked into and done a few things on it, haven't had the time to get serious till more recently.

It's probably been driven 3k miles since I've had it and only about 8 miles stacked..Since I had just put the SC pulley on.

When I bought the 65mm, it was mainly to replace the original pulley that had bad bearings and I wasn't planning on running stacked, so I hadn't researched that. I have since read on MBW that they had someone with the 185/65 with the upgraded SL55 fuel pump and the stock injectors were sufficient, which is why I thought that the fuel pump would be the first step.

I had kind of dismissed my a/f gauge as I thought the car only had the single cai, and it was just for show...I'm not even sure how accurate it is.

I'd like to eventually drive it down to Orlando to get a dyno tune at Eurocharged. But I need to be finished with any upgrades and find the time to do that.

I guess my next step is to check into the A/F ratio gauge, make sure it is works properly and figure out the numbers I need to be looking for. But from what I read so far It seems like I'll be doing the fuel pump at a minimum also.

Thanks!








Here is the Air/Fuel Ratio gauge
 
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

I would consider going to a smaller crank pulley, ie. 181 or 178. The 185 and 65 combo is way extreme if you don't want a service vehicle to follow. You are pushing the SC pulley to the limit, the bearings will not endure those RPMs for long.
 
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

If you show up to Eurocharged Orlando, send me a PM beforehand. I live 4 miles away on the same road and know the owner. Expect to pay $105/hr for work and $150/hr dyno time.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Be certain about the crank pulley size first. You need to know. Driving stacked with a 185 is dangerous to your engine. Drive ability is completely different stacked with any size aftermarket lower pulley. You build high boost right off idle and will starve for fuel as revs climb. I'm tuned with a 178 ASP pulley and experimented at the race track adding a 65mm supercharger pulley. It went stupid lean up top. Even at low revs I was nervous with the air fuel ratio. So much boost everywhere in the rpm range. The intake air temperatures skyrocketed under full boost and ran higher than usual all the time. I threw high boost codes (22-23 psi). I realize that you didn't know about the aftermarket crank pulley and imagine your tuned for it. Unfortunately...or fortunately, a stock supercharger pulley is the cheapest/best solution.

Les
 
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

Hey buddy I am in Greenville Nc
 
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Pulley exploded?

So the purple 2 piece "solid" crank pulley is NOT a ASP pulley as they use a dampened stock pulley to start with. They may have made the waterpump pulley but i do not believe they made the crank pulley. That looks to be a LET 181 or 185mm pulley. That pulley alone can lean out your motor if you do not have enough fueling mods. With you now stacking on a 65mm pulley you are greatly worsening the scenario. I suggest you remove the aftermarket sc pulley ASAP and put the stock back in its place until you are confident you are not already leaning out from the crank pulley, then add it once you have far more than sufficient fueling to handle even more boost/heat. Do you have the ability to record a datalog with the innovative wideband gauge? If so, email it over and we can discuss. After you have put the stock sc pulley back on, what sort of AFR (air fuel ratio) numbers do you see while going wide open throttle in 3rd gear? Or even above 5000 rpms in 2nd gear?
 
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